Facing the new century

“ Ontarians want quality education, healthcare, clean air and water…”

An exclusive conversation with 

the Hon. Dalton McGuinty, MPP

Leader of the Official Opposition

Leader of the Liberal Party of Ontario

By   Thomas S. Saras

Editor-In-Chief

Portrait of the politician                                           

Dalton McGuinty was born in Ottawa on July 19,1955 into a family with a long tradition in Ontario Liberal politics. His father, Dalton James McGuinty Sr., held the Ottawa South riding before passing away in 1990. His mother, Elizabeth McGuinty, currently resides in Ottawa where she works as a nurse.

After graduating from St. Patrick’s High School in Ottawa, McGuinty worked as an orderly at Rideau Veterans’ Hospital. His experience as a caregiver would later form the basis of his values about health care.

McGuinty went on to complete a Bachelor of Science degree in biology at McMaster University in Hamilton and a law degree from the University of Ottawa.

Before entering politics, McGuinty practiced law and founded the law firm McGuinty and McGuinty. He also taught business law at Carleton University.

Following in his father’s footsteps, McGuinty won the Ottawa South seat in the 1990 election. He served as Opposition Critic for Energy, Colleges and Universities, and Native Affairs. He was also chair of the Caucus Committee on Public Accounts. An active MPP, McGuinty also introduced several private member’s bills, two of which are now law. One of his bills made tougher for kids to get hooked on cigarettes, the other helped increase donations to Ontario food banks. His dedication and commitment to public service resulted in his election on December 1, 1996, as Leader of the Ontario Liberal Party and Leader of the Official Opposition.

Soon after becoming leader, McGuinty struck a task force on children’s issues. In February1998, McGuinty produced his plan to improve the lives of our children, called  First Steps. It contains 41 recommendations, including calls for giving mothers and their newborns the right to stay in hospital for at least 48 hours after childbirth; providing job-protected, unpaid family leave for medical emergencies; setting up a province-wide home visiting program for new mothers and their babies; and restoring senior kindergarten.

McGuinty and his wife, Terri (nee Taylor), a schoolteacher in Ottawa, were married in 1980. They have four children : Carleen, Dalton Jr., Liam and Connor.

The Interview

THOMAS SARAS:      Sir, as we are approaching the end of the millennium or, as some people say, entering the millennium, can you tell us how was this past year?

DALTON McGUINTY: Well, it was an unhappy year for Ontario families because many of their needs went unmet. Let me tell you what I mean by that. Mike Harris believes that the only thing that will satisfy the needs of Ontarians is tax cuts. I know different. Ontario families are telling me they want quality education. You know what they have been getting? They have been getting schools that do not have any spirit and teachers that do not have any enthusiasm. They have been getting a high school system that does not offer any extra curricular activities any more. On top of that, one half of our kids at the primary school level are not meeting the minimal acceptable levels when it comes to reading and writing, which makes Ontario families ask why? We have this turmoil, turbulence and constant disruption, we thought there would be a better end product, a better education for children but that has not happened.

The other thing that Ontario families need to count on and it is not getting is quality healthcare. What are they getting? They are getting a province with the fewest nurses per capita in the country. Why are we getting the fewest nurses? Because Mike Harris fired them by the thousands. And it cost taxpayers four hundred million in severance costs. Now since we have a shortage of nurses it means that we cannot open up hospitals beds. It means we have to re-direct ambulances. It means we have to delay and cancel surgeries. It means the people have to wait longer than ever before. All of that is part of the new healthcare system in Mike Harris’ Ontario. Families do not like that. The last thing I want to mention is that families need to count on air and water that will not make you sick. Today, in Ontario we are the second worse polluter in North American. You know who comes first? George W. Bush’s State of Texas. They are the worse and we are the second worse. We have had a 400% increase in childhood asthma rates. Do you know what a puffer is, Tom? You cannot go into any classroom today in the Toronto area and not find at least one child using a puffer.

The other thing that Ontario families want and Mike Harris is not giving them, is enough inspectors on the job here in Ontario, especially our smaller towns and villages making sure that the guy down there who is suppose to be looking after the water is doing his job.

So, what do Ontario families want? They want more than just tax cuts! They want quality education for their children, they want healthcare they can count on and they want air and water that will not make us sick. And they have not been getting those.

TS:       I discovered, and I do not know if you are aware, that many schools do not accept any more heritage language programs and the ones that they do charge $30,000 to $40,000 a year for the use of the classroom. My question is, are we still maintaining the policy of multiculturalism or is this policy today a policy of the past?

DM:     Well, this government does not recognize the value added that a multi-cultural society offers all of us. In a global economy we want to be sure that we have people here living in our province that understand the language from other countries, understand the culture and know how to do business. So, why cannot we take advantage of the people who are here (take advantage in the positive sense) and capitalize on all of these assets that we have? This government is failing to recognize that we have a wonderful asset here. It takes a little bit of work, not a lot, but a little bit of work to help foster and nurture that. And because of the funding formula that they have now, it does not surprise me that our public school boards right across the province are charging you money to use the school.

The other way that they are undercutting some of the assistance to new Canadian families is cutting the English as a second language program. This should be one of the minimum things that we should be doing for our new families who are coming here and trying to adjust and find opportunities of success.

TS:       This is an unlimited deficit to the society. New immigrants arrive on a daily basis without the English language skill and cannot do anything other than find a low paying job. Over the last four or five years, minimum wages remain the same. Why doesn’t anyone stand up to this government and tell them about the ordinary citizen who is getting paid minimum wages?

DM:     I hear you. I think we should have some kind of a system in place, which allows for regular increases to the cost of living to the minimum wages. I do agree with you that we must do something about minimum wages. But what I have been focusing on lately is our welfare recipients. The only thing that they have had in the last five years was a 22% cut that happened in 1995. Since then, food prices have gone up about 21% while they have not had an increase. So again today in the House for the fifteenth time I said to the Premier, ‘you are the sole provider for these 300 000 children who find themselves living in families that depend on welfar’. Back in 1992 he said it was a disgrace for the NDP government not to give 1%. Can you believe it, not to give 1% for families who are on welfare. I said it was a disgrace for one year, what does it mean if you have not given them an increase in 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 and the year 2000? Of course, he could not answer that. We now have some prosperity and how you spend your money is a reflection of your values. And my values would tell me that it is very important that we share in this wealth. If people at the top are doing well then it is important that we ensure that the people in the middle and the people in the lower economic loops also have an opportunity to prosper. And that is not happening right now.

TS:       Ours is a democratic society; there are rules and regulations. In the past, I have seen MPPs sitting in the House days and nights in protest in order to change the attitude of the government. Today it seems that everything is just accepted. Why?

DM:     Well, except a few things, we are sixteen points ahead in the polls. We have never been that far ahead. We are ahead in the 905 for the first time and what that tells me, if I want to be really honest about this, Tom, is that people are very unhappy with the government. And they now understand what the government is all about. The other question that I asked today is about this sixty-hour workweek. It is a new sixty-hour workweek. Do you know who is going to get hit with this? It is going to be people in the lower income groups and people who are paid on an hourly basis.  In 1944, in Ontario the MPPs decided that the 48-hour work week should have a cap. It is going to be 48 hours. It was decided that it was going to be progressive. It was important for parents to spend time with their children. Well, here we are in the year 2000, going into 2001, and what is Mike Harris doing? He is turning the clock back. He is going to take us back to a time before 1944; he is going to take us back to the sixty-hour workweek.  All you have to do is say NO. Well, let me tell you, that is not how it works. The employer-employee relationship is not one based on equality. The employer has the upper hand. If you come and see me, Tom, and I am the boss and you have children you have to feed and I say to you, Tom, I need you to work sixty-hour weeks; it is really important that you work sixty-hours a week. Well, you are thinking, if I say no then I could loose my job and, if I loose my job, I cannot support my family. A sixty-hour week as I put it to the Premier today, if it takes you an hour to get to work and one work to go hour, this means fourteen hours every day. So you leave the house at seven o’clock in the morning and you are back at nine o’clock at night. If you have little kids they should be in bed by then. If you are like me and you have four teenagers, you know what? They spend too much time unsupervised. You have to watch over everything they are doing. Homework, getting them involved in sports and those kinds of things.  So the sixty-hour workweek is Mike Harris turning the clock back when it comes to basic social standards for Ontario families.

TS:       In Europe, they are preparing to impose a 35-hour workweek and in the richest province of Canada we are preparing to accept a 60-hour workweek. The fact of the matter is that there is a labour movement in this province and I have seen some sort of apathetic acceptance of the decisions of the administration.

DM:     I disagree with you on that strongly, Tom. I will tell you some of the things that we have done. First of all, we are holding an inquiry into the Walkerton tragedy, not because Mike Harris wanted it. We fought and we won that fight. We have put forward an action plan to deal with the emergency room crisis throughout Ontario. We put forward an action plan to deal with our water to make sure that we are doing a much better job of protecting it.

Later this week, I am going to put forth an action plan to deal with the extra-curriculum problem with our schools. Here is the proposal, a positive alternative for the government and the public to see, to show that we are doing more than just opposing, we are proposing. I will introduce a private member’s bill that would ban the use of taxpayer dollars for all of those partisan political ads that people are so disgusted with.

So we have been working really hard to try to make a real difference in terms of what the government is doing. The thing that Alvin Curling did before in the House, we can no longer do that. They have changed the rules. There was a time when Mike Harris stood in the House and he read bills and the bills were essentially a list of every lake, river and stream in the Province of Ontario. Now they did that together with the caucus for maybe 16 hours. The NDP changed the rules so that you cannot do that any more. And frankly when Peter Kormos stole the House for 27 hours, the Liberals changed the rules. So the Liberals tightened up a little bit, and the NDP tightened up a bit more and now the Tories have us by the throat. We have very little flexibility when it comes to debating and committees. This employment standard act will have a profound change for Ontario families. There are no committee hearings. Changes will happen just like the snap of my finger.

TS:       I want to know from the Leader of the Official Opposition what he thinks of the life of the working citizen in Ontario and the future of this province.

DM:     There is hope because we will form the government in 2003, but we are also going to fight hard for the “little guy” on the street as you put it, Ontario families, as I prefer to put it.  I am afraid that most of it is not very good news because the government is not prepared to take a real leadership role in this matter. It is going to continue to fight with teachers and our children will pay the price.

I think they are going to refuse to put in place a long-term plan for healthcare so Ontarians and our sick especially our going to pay the price.

And when it comes to the environment, if I have asked them once Tom, I have asked thirty times, when are you going to hire back all those inspectors that you fired just to make sure that our water is clean? They have not done anything. 

We are going to continue to work very hard to help Ontarians understand exactly what the government is doing. For example not very many people know that this government added 24 billion dollars to the debt including 10 billion dollars that they borrowed for the tax cut. They are spending 50% more today than the Peterson Liberals did. They are spending more on healthcare and more on education; you have to ask yourself then why are we not getting better education? Why are we not getting better healthcare? Why are the air and water not safer today than they have ever been before? Not only that, Tom, these people here, the Harris conservatives, they are going to be against big government. We have bigger cities, bigger hospitals, bigger jails, bigger school boards and we have big government. Now the Minister of Health wants to know what is in our medical records and so does the Attorney General.

  TS:      I believe that one of the main reasons we establish a government is to ensure a just and carrying society for all citizens.  Yet, our streets are full of homeless people. Is it not up to our government to help these people be part of our society?

DM:     Not only that, Tom, but think of Ontario as a ship and the premier as the captain. There is only one order today that the captain of the ship has to give. Do you know what that order is? All hands on deck. Do you know what that means? It means we need everybody. So every time that someone is left behind, that is lost economic potential. That is lost prosperity not only for that individual but also for all of us. We need everybody. In a knowledge-based economy, everybody has to achieve his or her potential.

TS:       Speaking about the economy, we have full employment now and I have seen that many people are worse off now although the government tells us we are better off. I see many people who are having a difficult time trying to make ends meet. Can you explain this?

DM:     A budget is more than just an economic statement; it is a statement of your values. At the time of the last budget, do you know what they did? They committed to four billion dollars in corporate income tax cuts. They committed to 1.6 billion dollars for people who play the stock market. It seems to me that if we can afford that kind of money for the business sector then certainly we can afford a little bit of money for social housing; making sure that children who are growing up at risk have their needs met; making sure that we have enough nurses working in our hospitals, and that we do not have to send ambulances away. It is a matter of priorities. The question today is not where are we going to get the money, the question is what do we do with the money? It is an important difference.

TS:       As the Official Leader of the Opposition, how can you influence the government to change direction and focus on its people?

DM:     I succeed influencing the government whenever the government believes I present large number of Ontarians. That is why it is so important for Ontarians to express their outrage and their disappointment and their dismay and their anger with this government. And so this employment standards act, people should be saying that this is a fundamental change and it is going to affect the amount of time families have to come together. It will do it in a negative way and I am going to speak out against that. Before January, we will have put forth a peace plan for our schools. The teachers will have to give up a little bit and the government will have to give up a little bit, and it is important that they do that for the interest of our children. I want the public to say McGuinty has an idea. He wants to make sure that the children have an opportunity to participate in extra curricular activities. If you, the government, do not like that idea then you come up with a better idea but the status quo is unacceptable. We cannot keep saying to our children that they cannot participate in extra curricular activities.

Tom, there are many children today right across Ontario in which extra curricular activities, such as playing on a team, helping with the yearbook or participating in a play, cannot do that, then they really do not want to be in school. I have friends that if they could not play football, they would not have come to school. That was the hook. That kept them there. Mark Twain said that if was very important never to allow school to interfere with your education. And he was saying there are all kinds of experiences outside of the classroom, which are very educational, very instructive. One of those is extra-curricular activity.

TS: The government wants people off welfare. I know people who prefer to stay on welfare and keep a part-time job in order to keep their welfare benefits. If they come off welfare, they will be in a low-paying job without benefits. If you have a family to support, this will not be enough, let alone if you need medication for your children. Are you aware of this reality ?

DM:     I am aware that the government is aware of those things. It is just that addressing those matters is not a priority for this government. This government has lost touch with the needs of Ontario families. It has lost touch with the needs of our lower income earners. Most of those people come from very humble backgrounds. Many of us have family who come here from all across the world who came with nothing, including my own ancestors. All you had to do was work hard and you found success. Well, now they turned their back on the need to make sure our families have those opportunities. We have to give our children a good education, and we have to make sure everyone could afford to go on to college or university. What they are doing is bringing in private universities. What is that going to be? $40,000 tuition? How does that help?

TS: In closing, I am asking you what is your message for our readers as we are entering this new millennium?

DM:     I want to take the opportunity to thank your readers for the contribution they make to our community and the strength that they lend to us.  I would like to encourage parents in particular to make sure that they do whatever they can so that their children understand where they came from. All those values that have been handed down from generation after generation, those are good things. Those sustain the families. And those values should continue to form this new society here in Ontario. That is very important. I also tell people never, ever give up. We are working hard to build a better Ontario. I would be optimistic. There are a lot of people who understand what this government is all about.  They know that deep down inside there is something that tells us it is profoundly right to help one another. It is not right to leave people behind. That is what keeps me going and that is what I encourage your readers to hang on to. We Ontarians believe that it is right to help one another. And I will deliver that kind of government in 2003.

TS:       I wish you all the best and thank you very much for your time.

DM:     Thank you, Tom, all the best.